Burmese Language
Peter Gitmark: ‘Sanctions must stay’
Norway has long championed Burma’s pro-democracy movement, and has been a chief source of funding for exiled media and campaign organisations. But while the majority of Norway shares the desire for the same end result in Burma, ministers and policymakers are divided on which path to follow to achieve this.
Erik Solheim, Norway’s minister for the environment and international development, is currently in Burma and has met with members of the now-disbanded National League for Democracy (NLD) party. But his anti-sanctions stance has been criticised by Peter Gitmark, a Norwegian MP and a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee, who tells DVB that the push to lift sanctions on Burma “is a great mistake”.
Why is it a bad idea to lift sanctions on Burma?
The Burmese leadership is leading the people of Burma into dismay; the people are in poverty, they lack democratic rights and we need to see a proper change in the leadership to bring back democracy to Burma before we lift sanctions. I think Mr Solheim is making a terrible mistake; if he lifts Norway out of the block of international countries and orgs that support today’s sanctions on Burma it would have a very negative effect on the whole of the sanctions and in terms of what message Norway would be sending to the Burmese leadership.
Solheim said that there is hope the elections could change the political landscape in Burma. What is your reaction?
We can only hope he’s right, but it’s not credible at all. He should be focusing on reality – the reality is that Burma is ruled by a very dictatorial military leadership that has billions and billions of dollars stolen from the country and put into their own pockets. The people of Burma are living in extreme poverty because the leaders are getting richer, and the people are getting poorer, and the democratic rights, even with this elections, is none existent. So what the minister is saying is just blatantly wrong. We know that this election will be rigged and will be stolen; the only reason why the junta is having this election is because they are absolutely certain they will win, and there is no point in participating if you know the outcome. The second part is also the courageous people of Burma – as we’ve seen on a number of occasions have risen up and will defy the military, and I’m only fearful that those people will be punished once again for taking part in an election and giving their vote for a free and democratic Burma.
So you are pessimistic?
Yes. I think that if a large number of international observers are on the ground and we knew that the military would respect the outcome, then I would urge everyone to participate in the elections, but because we know the outcome, there is no point.
Many reports claim that the Burmese government is skimming Norwegian aid money
It’s one of the systems we’ve seen in dictatorships across the world – they are very interested in getting foreign currency into their country and to help the military leadership. We know that from every dollar that is being taken into the country, the aid agency is being given the official exchange rate, and in reality the exchange is one to two hundredths of that. This is just another argument that money given to Burma should be going to the people, and it can’t be given through the official system of exchange rates – it needs to be money that is going to the people all around the countryside.
So the question is accountability. What is your experience of Burmese accountability?
There is no accountability inside the junta. The only accountability is to the top general for the other generals and the lower officers, and we know that the military leadership is getting richer and richer, day by day. One of the reasons is international trade and Chinese exploitation, and it’s also in terms of development pouring in and being exchanged at a phoney rate. We, as donors, need to look upon how we are to help the people of Burma, and not the junta, for as long as there is money flowing in, the military leaders will cling onto power and never let that power go. And if they see that the people are rising up, that the people are again on the streets looking for a democratic and free Burma, and that no money is coming into the country, then the chance of staying in power will be much lower than it is today.
What about claims that the junta is stashing profits from natural gas sales in international bank accounts?
We know that the military leaders have one priority and that is to stay in power and get more money for themselves. Their priority is not the people of Burma, as a democratic leadership of Burma would have their priority, to make sure the people are taken out of poverty and that there is once more a middle class in Burma, and that people are able to fend for themselves and have a livelihood. And also to set up businesses once again where all the money is going to the family, to the people that work, and not to the top leaders.
Some Norwegian journalists say they are allowed [to go into Burma] and are granted press visas. They call this historic. But if you look in the past you’ll see that a CNN reporter was recently kicked out and that the media inside Burma is running under very restricted rules.
Do you really think the media is needed for Norway’s humanitarian assistance in Burma?
Well first of all, we’d like to say that the Democratic Voice of Burma is doing a fantastic job of getting information both to Burma and out of Burma. It’s very hard sitting on the outside of Burma and getting incredible information about what is going on. So we are completely relying on what the Democratic Voice of Burma is doing. But we’re also relying on international media present in Burma. I think it is good that there are journalists being allowed to operate inside of Burma even though we know that security around them is very tight. That would have potential implications at least to the people that would voice their criticism towards the Burmese government that they need. But it’s also, seen from my point of view, very important that the people of Norway, Europe and Northern America knows what is going on and our media isn’t focusing so much on Burma as it should. So them being able to send their journalists is very positive for educating the people outside of Burma what the situation is.
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Sanctions should be targeted to the mega business like oil and gas, not to the small and medium business like garment, agriculture and fishery where a lot of people are working in these sectors. We also need technical helps in these business.
Bravo! Truth nothing but the truth, and reality this interview reflected the present situation of Burma. I can’t stop congratulate Mr P. Gitmark for his view on Burma.
What an idiot. He clearly is just repeating ‘feel good’ analysis – junta bad, sanctions good. Doesn’t offer any way forward.
The thing is – he and his kids dont have to live in Burma. We do. We need practical solutions.
The sad fact is that a lot of Burmese are led astray by these Western politicians. All they have to do is make a little speech like this and people like “MinKaungWin” (above) clap “Bravo!” and everyone feels good for five minutes.
Then reality sets in. Nothing changes.
PLEASE stop this circle of stupidity. We’ve had sanctions for 20 years. At least TRY something different.
Dear Soe Thane. Thank you! I never understand how all these idiots – sorry, I apply this word as an expert on human behavior, after having served as a diplomat and ambassador for 25 years – repeat themselves for the last 15 years, and applauding sanctions without any positive effect. It is like the Buddhist happiness: not the one who receives but the one who gives gets the merits.
It makes European and US politician just happy to apply sanctions, the result is very good: it creates merits for them.
Well, trying something else is difficult, as burmese people are not very enthousiastic about new ideas and solidarity among themselves – only the generals do it successfully, as they have a common interest.
I must say that the Burmese people must appreciate and remember friends like Mr Peter Gitmark. Their analysis and comments on the bits of news coming out of Burma, and their work in aid of Burma contribute a great deal in the process of change for the better in Burma. It is gratifying to note that democratic Burma has Mr Gitmark for a friend.
Than Shwe and his cronies are leaders of the junta, yes, but not of Burma in the hearts of all-ethnic people that include the Burman majority. (Please also note that NLD is only an unregistered party, shunnibg participation in the unlawful election, not a disbanded one.) Any business in connection with the junta is a sheer waste, nothing of benefits to the people. So, any official engagement of the international community with the junta would entail in a wasteful budget cost to the states concerned. This the politicians like Jim Webb and the like must be very, very careful about. To err is human, but erring to assist the Burmese junta in any possible way is abominable and highly damaging to all parties working in good faith.
Thank you, Mr Gitmark.
P.S. I am not member of any political party or alliance, having never been anywhere near them.
The people of Burma are, or have been for over 40 years, poor irrespective of whether there are sanctions or not: the current rulers and the ones since 1962 never have priotized wellbeing of the people. Lifting sanctions would mean victory for the junta and defeat for the ordinary people. Just think of how the junta reap the undeserved benefits at the expense of the man in the street. It is not sanctions that caused sucffering to the people, it is the junta who play dirty with live soldiers, live guns, batons and bullets on the people. I say this because, to me, dissent is the citizens’ birth right – thay must have an outlet for airing their aspirations, freely and fairly, deserving respect and honour for their courage, not to be belittled, abused and treated in the most abhorrant manners. Kings must treat their subjects with kindness and mercy, the qualities conducive to endearing love, not dissents,from the people.
Now, the plan for perpetuation of the military rule and the threat of nukes in the offing. Lifting sanctions would benefit (more wealth and power) to the junta and their associates. That will be the end of hope for all the people.
No doubt, the situation is not as simple or as difficult as different people of different views may think. But it will be greatly simplified if the junta just for a moment reflect on the real plight of the people (getting poorer and poorer day by day while the junta and their assiciates all the richer.)
Sanctions are done at a big cost to the countries that do them, not merits as someone has suggested. The people in exile may live much better than their friends or families living in Burma (why can’t it be better there?), but they want to come home, to a free Burma.
It is not simple, no. But it can be made simple. The junta is at the centre of it all.
PB Publico has no real idea about the effect sanctions have had in Burma.
The regime isolated the country for forty years. That’s how they stayed in power. How can more isolation through sanctions possibly help?
Does he really think the people at the top now are not making money? Has sanctions affected them at all? I’d like him to give one example of how General Than Shwe et al are suffering today as a result of Western boycotts.
And remember – these are WESTERN boycotts. The generals can trade as much or as little as they’d like with ALL other countries.
I can give hundreds of examples of how ordinary people through are hurt by sanctions. What are the main sanctions? One was a withdrawl of GSP privileges and cutting of US investment ten years ago; the result? 70,000 young women were thrown out of work, young women who were support tens of thousands of others. The sanctions against the UN providing development advice? How does cutting all development dialogue with the regime hurting them? Do they care? How about the tourist boycott? Thousands of small businesses have gone broke. While the top businesses owned by the generals and their partners are doing very well. The sanctions that give the Burmese $1 in aid for every $30 that goes to communist Laos and Vietnam? 100,000 people die a year from treatable diseases because the Burmese do not receive the international aid other countries (including Zimbabwe, Sudan and Cambodia) receive.
Stop thinking in abstractions. Look at real facts.
The generals are very happy. You are basically in league with the hardliners who want to keep things as they are.
Its this kind of sloppy thinking that is literally killing thousands of Burmese people every month. Lots of people inside are extremely angry with sanctions but have no chance to say so.
U Soe Thane made a strong case for himself.
But I will not argue with him.
I may be wrong about sanctions. So is he. Why pick a quarrel?
Thank you for this opportunity of free expression, DVB.
U Soe Thane does not make a case for himself, but for the reality.
For sure, PB Publico is a good hearted person, by saying ..”Their analysis and comments on the bits of news coming out of Burma, and their work in aid of Burma contribute a great deal in the process of change for the better in Burma. It is gratifying to note that democratic Burma has Mr Gitmark for a friend…”
These are heartwarming words, but they have nothing to do with reality. There are not “bits of news coming out of Burma”… but tons of information every expert knows, sorry.
All those good willing people did not contribute a bit to the process of a change to a better Burma for the last 20 years, it just makes THEM happy. But hundreds of thousands of poor people also suffered and suffer from negative effects of sanctions. Just stay in the country for some months, and you will learn all this.
And “democratic Burma has Mr. Gitmark as a friend…”: there is no such think as a democratic Burma, its a dream, and during the last 12 years, I never saw, met or heard about this man. So, he cannot be a Burma expert anyhow. Staying in Norway is nice, but not enough to talk to the public about these difficult and sensitive matters. The people in Burma have other problems.
U Soe Thane-you would better have a wider view. Friends from outside of Burma are sharing their beliefs based on their experiences. it is good for you not to fix on one desire or goal or view. it is not good to criticize or argue those ideas coming from friends outside of Burma. Their ideas or beliefs or views are valuable. If we, Burmese citizens, want to change our country we should open our minds, eyes, ears and hearts to international sharing with respect.
Why don’t you ask burmese people leaving in Burma what they think about international sanctions and what is the impact on their own lifes ?
In Burma, the answer is very clear : sanctions are unfair.
Norway has never ever dared publish an independent assessment of the effectiveness of sanctions, because if Norway did, it would show that sanctions are hoplessly ineffective, target and hit the wrong people, serve to entrench the military regime in power and enable neighbours China, Thailand and other countries to exploit Burma’s natural resources ruthlessly.
You can’t unfortunately target the gas revenues of the regime because they are nowadays spread among numerous banks in Singapore, Hong Kong, Dubai, China, Russia, India, Japan and South Korea. In any case, if the flow of gas to Thailand ceased as a result, the Thais would lose 30% of their total gas imports and some 22% of all energy imports. Bangkok would then have far worse power cuts than Rangoon, Thai industry would be on half-time and the red shirts would join the yellow shirts (with Thai Army and Police encouragement, while the good Mr Abhisit was conveniently on holiday) in ransacking the Norwegian Embassy in Bangkok and demanding the extradition of Peter Gitmark from Norway to face Thai justice for crimes against the Thai people and the Thai economy.
I agree totally with U Soe Thein and Derek Tonkin. I won’t elaborate the negative effects of sanctions, not only in Myanmar case, but worldwide.
I welcome Mr. Erik Solheim’s effort to research himself on the matter of this wrong punishment. I hope Norway becomes an example of sensitive on the negative effects of sanctions and breaks the chain of hands of Western sanction-gang. I know if not all, but most of us want so much our country becoming a democracy. Because of the poor quality of the leadership of the opposition, the past 22 years is a waste. We must find a new path and leadership for that course. The essential is to build trust between the civilian elites (representative of the people) and the regime. To achieve this we need social contacts and working together until the regime willingly leaves politics. We have no other choice. We must accept gradual change and work for the best all the time.
Sanction only gives feel-good and identity of I’m moral and the regime is evil and nothing more. However, all its spill over negativity falls on the shoulder of our people inside Myanmar. I pray Norwegian government does a difference.